Journalism isn’t what it was once, and that’s not essentially a nasty factor. Particularly for those who’re Mehdi Hasan.
However regardless of the place he’s been on digicam or revealed, the British-born son of Indian immigrants requested the type of powerful questions that gained him a status as a fierce debater and unflinching proponent of high-impact, usually adversarial journalism.
“When we talk about media organizations, it’s often asked, ‘Are they left or are they right?’” Hasan says. “But I don’t think that dynamic is helpful. For me, it’s more like do they keep their heads down or do they keep their heads up?”
Hasan’s unwillingness to melt the sides round hot-button matters could possibly be the explanation he’s labored for extra retailers than most public-facing people within the media. His departure from MSNBC in January 2024, for instance, got here after his exhibits had been canceled by the community for “business reasons.” They provided to maintain him on as a contributor, however he declined.
This dialog has been edited for size and readability.
“When we talk about media organizations, it’s often asked, ‘Are they left or are they right?’” Mehdi Hasan says. “But I don’t think that dynamic is helpful.”
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What did it take to get Zeteo up and working?
Me and the 4 individuals who set it up. And it was Ramadan. And I used to be fasting. I’ll say I by no means need to do a startup firm once more with 4 individuals throughout Ramadan [laughs]. We’re nonetheless a small, nimble operation, nevertheless it’s not insane as 4 individuals attempting to do every little thing. We’ve a political correspondent, Prem Thakker, who broke the campus deportation story. We introduced on Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush, members of Congress, to do a YouTube present for us referred to as “Bowman and Bush.” [Former Washington Post columnist] Taylor Lorenz has simply turn out to be a contributor for us. We’ve Daniel Levy, the previous Israeli peace negotiator. And we’re going to be asserting extra within the coming days as we method the anniversary. So we’re rising on that entrance.
The identify Zeteo comes from the traditional Greek phrase for “seeking out” or “striving.” Why not simply name your startup the Mehdi Hasan Community?
It was by no means going to be the Mehdi Hasan community. Clearly, I’m the face of it. I’m the founder. I do the flagship exhibits. Nevertheless it was at all times about being greater than me. That’s the purpose. If I obtain nothing else, I’ve supplied a platform for actually fascinating individuals to say the unsayable, whether or not it’s [Egyptian political satirist] Bassem Youssef on the podcast; John Harwood [formerly of CNN], who writes superb political items for us; Pakistani novelist Fatima Bhutto; Amy Klein; Owen Jones; or Greta Thunberg. They’re saying issues as contributors you gained’t see elsewhere.
You moved to the U.S. in 2015, the place you hosted a weekly present on Al Jazeera English. However simply 5 years later, you landed your personal present, “The Mehdi Hasan Show,” on Peacock. And shortly after that, you had been slotted into MSNBC’s lineup. That’s a speedy trajectory.
After I moved right here, individuals mentioned to me, “Oh, you’re going to end up at CNN, MSNBC because you do great interviews.” I used to be like, “No one’s ever going to hire me. I’m a brown, Muslim, lefty immigrant. I’m happy at Al Jazeera.” Mainstream was by no means going to be for me, but Phil Griffin and MSNBC took an opportunity on me in 2020 and employed me to do a present. I didn’t suppose I’d last more than six months, however I lasted for 3½ years.
You don’t must outline activism as altering issues and journalism as not altering issues. The largest adjustments in our society have come from journalism. Investigative journalism, at its perfect, adjustments issues. It holds individuals accountable. It forces individuals to vary constructions, reform establishments. So I feel one of the best journalism is affect journalism that drives change. In any other case, what’s the level? Horse-race journalism — who’s up, who’s down, who’s doing effectively within the polls — that’s by no means been my curiosity. I do it sometimes as a result of it has its function, however that’s by no means been what drives me. I don’t suppose it needs to be what drives our business, both. I need to make a change. That’s why I do what I do. In any other case, I’d be an accountant.
The place does Zeteo stand within the crowded area of recent media startups?
One factor I used to be very clear about after I launched Zeteo was that I used to be going to be strolling that tightrope between being anti-establishment and institution, between mainstream and non-mainstream. Lots of people didn’t like that. What occurs to plenty of left-wing media retailers is that they get marginalized or marginalize themselves. They’re seen as fringe. However there’s no level in doing wonderful journalism, wonderful op-eds or commissioning good documentaries if nobody sees them.
Mehdi Hasan says he “was going to be walking that tightrope between being anti-establishment and establishment” with Zeteo.
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Did you intend on turning into a journalist?
I went to Oxford College. I did PPE [Politics, Philosophy and Economics]. Most of my graduating class went off to be administration consultants and funding bankers. I went off to get a 13,000-pound-a-year job, to the nice disappointment of my Asian dad and mom. However working in TV appeared essential.
As youngsters of immigrants, our dad and mom got here from locations the place the media was hobbled or the place there isn’t any free press. Now you’re within the U.S., and the media is going through unprecedented challenges from the Trump administration.
Now, having mentioned that, we’ve received to place it in context. I’m nonetheless within the U.S., nonetheless protected by the first Modification. I’m not in Gaza, the place over 200 journalists have been killed. It’s the worst battle for journalists in historical past. The Civil Warfare, WWI, WWII — none of it comes shut. Sure, it’s a dangerous time for journalists in America, however in context, we’re nonetheless 10,000 occasions in a greater place than journalists in Gaza, for instance.
This month marks one yr since Zeteo’s official launch. How are issues going?
I’m a really cautious particular person. I’ve by no means run a enterprise earlier than. I don’t have that entrepreneurial streak of risk-taking. After I launched this, I used to be tremendous cautious about what we might obtain. However, amazingly, the assist I received after I left MSNBC and introduced Zeteo blew me away. We blasted by means of all of our early benchmarks, metrics and targets, and by the point we hit the summer time, we had been effectively forward of ourselves. So we’re in an excellent place.
Are you able to identify among the benchmarks?
A yr in, most startups don’t break even. However this yr we’ve made a small revenue, which we weren’t planning on. We’re at 400,000 subscribers, which isn’t the place I assumed we’d be. We’re No. 6 on Substack, behind Bari Weiss, Heather Cox [Richardson] and the Bulwark people. We’ve 715,000 followers on YouTube proper now and we’re rising by greater than 1,000 a day. We’ve received greater than 40,000 paying subscribers, which helps pay the payments. And we’ve received over 1,000 founding members who pay $500 a yr to assist us.
“A year in, most startups don’t break even. But this year we’ve made a small profit, which we weren’t planning on,” Mehdi Hasan says.
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Is company media adequately overlaying the America we stay in at present?
My place shouldn’t be that the company media’s useless or that each one mainstream media is dangerous. That may be ridiculous. I’ve labored in these organizations. There are nice journalists doing nice work there. My place is that mainstream media will get loads incorrect, and there are plenty of gaps that have to be stuffed, and that’s what Zeteo is doing. That doesn’t imply I need to burn all of it down. We wouldn’t be capable of exist as a small media enterprise if we weren’t in a position to depend on nice investigative scoops from sure individuals on the Submit or Politico or the New York Occasions. That doesn’t imply I like every little thing that these retailers do.
They know “mistruth” is only a softer phrase for “lie.”
My place may be very easy: For those who say one thing false greater than as soon as after you’ve been corrected, it’s a lie. That’s Trump 100 occasions over.
You’re identified for being unapologetically outspoken, and pinning your debate opponents on divisive points. You even channeled your superpower right into a guide, “Win Every Argument.”
There’s at all times been that shadowing round me wherever I’ve been. It’s made individuals uncomfortable in plenty of locations. I’m not going to call an outlet, however I’ll say this, there have been occasions the place an interview I’ve executed has gone viral and individuals are like, “Oh, my God, mic drop! The person’s been destroyed,” to make use of YouTube language. That’s what individuals know me for. Then I’ll point out that to a good friend or member of the family, and they’re going to say, however do your bosses even need that? And it’s like, “Oh, I didn’t think of that. Good question.”
Which brings us again to MSNBC…
