This text accommodates spoilers for the finale of Netflix’s “You.”
He has been Joe Goldberg, the well-read supervisor of a New York Metropolis bookstore. He’s been Will Bettelheim, a employee at a classy Los Angeles well being meals market. He’s been Jonathan Moore, a literature professor at a London college. And he’s been Joe Goldberg — once more — however as a married man, a father and a budding philanthropist. Regardless of the title, he was the seemingly good important different whose charming and thoughtful exterior hid a delusional, disturbed and harmful sociopath who goes to excessive lengths — like killing practically two dozen folks — to insert himself into the lives of the ladies who turned his obsession.
Now, Penn Badgley has shed all of these identities. His journey on the Lifetime-turned-Netflix sequence “You” reached its conclusion Thursday with the discharge of the drama’s fifth and ultimate season. Joe has been discovered responsible of the murders of Guinevere Beck (Elizabeth Lail) and Love Quinn (Victoria Pedretti). And within the final minutes of the ultimate episode, we see Joe with a buzz minimize and in a crimson jumpsuit, sitting in a jail cell, skimming a replica of Norman Mailer’s 1979 novel “The Executioner’s Song.” The final phrases of the sequence, fittingly, come within the type of Joe’s internal monologue. And so they take goal on the viewer.
“Can you say them?” says Badgley, asking for a mild reminder after we meet a number of days earlier than the episodes are launched.
Nonetheless sporting the excitement minimize, he’s sitting in a holding room at Netflix’s workplaces on Vine Road, and as he’s about to mirror on his character’s parting ideas, the piercing tone of an emergency alert notification begins blaring via his telephone‘s speakers. “Earthquake detected,” he says, reading the message before showing his screen. “Drop, cover, hold on. Protect yourself.” It’s that form of startling distraction, simply as the stress has intensified, that’s helped Joe escape detection. Badgely, although, isn’t on the lookout for an out.
With no imminent hazard inside our radius, he returns to Joe’s ultimate phrases. (Narrating for the present’s unreliable narrator is a frightening task, by the best way.)
“So in the end, my punishment is even worse than I imagined. The loneliness, oh my God, the loneliness. No hope of being held, knowing this is forever. It’s unfair putting all this on me. Aren’t we all just products of our environment? Hurt people, hurt people. I never stood a chance.” [An officer appears and slides a letter from an admirer through the bars of his cell. And Joe continues:] “Why am I in a cage when all these crazies write me all the depraved things they want me to do to them? Maybe we have a problem as a society. Maybe the problem isn’t me. Maybe it’s you.”
Listed below are edited excerpts from the dialog.
What are your ideas on these ultimate phrases? What he says is one thing you’ve talked quite a bit about over the run of the present.
Michael [Foley] and Justin [Lo, who took over as showrunners for the final season] had an extremely troublesome activity for themselves to finish this factor that’s like, is it end-able? Is it actually? I believe it’s a satisfying ending. I believe it’s the precise ending. Thematically, that was the place it needed to go: him alone and alive. What I suppose you’ll be able to’t see, what there isn’t time for, is to indicate him contending in actual time with it. However I believe he additionally reveals us that he’s avoiding it. He’s like, “Well, it’s not me.”
We gave as a lot justice as the entire idea may take with out breaking it. The present ends in a spot the place it’s like, what do you do with this? What can we do with with male violence? It’s a very severe query. It’s by no means easy to even method a solution, if we’re actually making an attempt to think about the humanity of everyone and true justice. I believe it ends in a spot that we veer towards duty relatively than away from it.
Elizabeth Lail and Penn Badgley within the first season of “You” on Netflix. (Netflix)
Madeline Brewer as Bronte and Penn Badgley as Joe within the ultimate season of “You.”
Proper. That’s what acquired me considering, is he getting what he deserves, given what he says? Would dying have been justice?
Truthfully, what would [be justice]? There’s jail, there’s dying, there’s torture and dying or torture then jail; there’s not getting caught in any respect. There aren’t that many issues that might occur. You undergo the listing. If he was to be murdered, effectively, that brings up quite a lot of questions — specifically, is that truthful to the one that has to kill him? That’s marring them, that’s leaving them, even when it’s completely justified, with an unlimited burden to saddle on a lady’s shoulders, as a result of it will presumably have been a lady [killing him]. That’s not proper. There’s jail; we did that. The factor that makes it [work] — folks consider the field as his weapon. That’s the factor he’s related to. But when you consider it, he’s a romantic, seductive determine. And truly, the place he does his most harm is admittedly extra within the bed room, the proverbial bed room. And that’s the place he’s really faraway from the world.
It’s not torture, it’s not vengeance. She [Bronte, Joe’s new quasi-love interest played by Madeline Brewer] didn’t even technically imply to do it. That’s the factor that makes it satisfying. I don’t even know if it’s satisfying ideologically. In probably the most sensible sense, it’s satisfying. He’s not murdered and saved from distress. Anyone doesn’t need to do one thing to him that makes him assume that he has an ethical excessive floor above them. He’s simply put in jail and that a part of him is taken away so he actually can by no means do it once more. There can by no means be a sixth or seventh or nevertheless many seasons.
Had you given a lot thought to what your protagonist deserved?
For years. The true ending is every thing main as much as that. It’s the latter half of this final season and, particularly, the final episode. The field is the plain factor. And, positive, how visually iconic and probably satisfying wouldn’t it be to have him killed within the field? He acquired stopped practically bare and, for the primary time in our eyes, he was turning into a sexual predator. That was what he was from the start and, whether or not proper or improper, what the present selected to do was withhold the viewer from with the ability to see that, make the visible connection. And if it was accountable, it was as a result of it was ensuring you do the work to understand: What do it is advisable to see? Do it is advisable to see a rape? Is that what it is advisable to see with the intention to notice this man in a sexual predator? I don’t assume we should always have to see that. It was the one time in my life the place I used to be adamant about being like, “No, I need to be in the least clothing possible.” The viewers must really feel that he’s dangerously near crossing a line, for us to see that second. And to catch him there, for her to catch him there. For us to see it, to witness his deconstruction in that approach — that’s what the ending is, not a lot concerning the jail.
I believe folks will prefer it. However there’s gonna be so many people who find themselves going to be like [rolls eyes and moans with disapproval]. OK, truthful, truthful. You would possibly also have a level. However do you perceive how a lot work a writers’ room has to [do] … it’s a must to attempt to flip over each stone. What they did, I believe, is exceptional.
What was it like capturing that sequence within the woods? It was troublesome to look at for all the explanations you say. Joe become an animal.
To be trustworthy, I beloved it. To start with, hats off to all of our producers. They made positive that we had saved money and time by the point we acquired to the final episode so we may shoot that factor like a little bit film. We had time to make it proper. By the point we acquired there, I’d invested sufficient that I didn’t need to do much more work that I used to be actually consciously conscious of. I had among the most enjoyable I’ve had all through the complete sequence. I spent quite a lot of time in my underwear and nothing else. Originally of each take, for a interval of about two weeks or so, I needed to be coated in some extent of blood, sweat, exhaustion. I used to be doing quite a lot of burpees, so it was simply bodily tremendous demanding. However I acquired into a spot the place it was two weeks of this unimaginable endurance train. It was a ravishing option to finish the present. We may take care. I ought to give Madeline [Brewer, who plays Bronte, Joe’s latest conquest], her flowers. She was an unimaginable artistic associate to try this with. There was nothing that felt troublesome for the improper causes. I spent per week and a half in my underwear within the woods at evening — I didn’t get one bug chew!
After 5 seasons, Penn Badgley says goodbye to the narcissistic sociopath character he portrayed in “You.” (Matt Seidel / For The Occasions)
You’re mendacity.
I’m not. I wouldn’t say that. That will be loopy! I’m not even exaggerating. Not one.
How a lot distance have you ever had from Joe at this level?
We wrapped in August.
Did you continue to have the voiceover stuff after that?
Sure, I had sufficient that my job was not over. Actually, in all probability two months later or one thing, I needed to go in. On the final day, I didn’t comprehend it was my final day. And by the best way, it’s nearly at all times been distant, apart from the primary season. So, I’m alone. It’s simply two post-producers in my ear and the engineer. It’s emblematic of what the expertise is for me. It’s like, “I’m here alone.” In fact, there’s so many individuals supporting however, in some way, Joe is sort of a man alone in a field. We have been doing one thing form of unremarkable for voiceover that [last] day. Due to what it was, I stated, “Is this it?” That was the extremely anticlimactic ending for me.
So, it wasn’t the narration with Joe’s parting ideas?
No. The ultimate phrases you hear have been the primary take that I did months previous to it. My supply, I believe, was not emphatic as some may think it will be. The final phrase is “you.” So, I may actually draw that out, and I used to be identical to, “I’m literally not going to give you another one, because if I do, you will use it. I’m sorry, it’s very important to me. Fire me.” That was the one hill possibly I selected to die on.
The very last thing [I filmed] was in jail. Truly, that was the identical day I shot that “demure” TikTok. The humorous factor is, Netflix is asking me to do one thing for it. I threw that collectively so quick as a result of the very first thing I needed to do [for the show] was go in and shave my head. They have been like, “Oh, you can do it after rehearsals.” I used to be like, “I can’t, guys. That’s a huge spoiler.”
That evening [after wrapping] I drove all the best way out to to Lengthy Island [to spend two weeks at the beach with family]. I believe I sat in an extended silence. It was actually surreal. It was a greater a part of my 30s — in a number of months, I’ll be 39; it defines an period for me.
You began this journey with Sera Gamble. She stepped down from showrunning duties for the ultimate season however remained a producer. Have been you checking in together with her?
Solely at first. She trusted Michael and Justin, and I trusted them. There wasn’t even a symbolic hand-holding. It was now not her responsibility. All people was doing what they wanted to do. I believe we in all probability texted proper in direction of the top. She in all probability had the closest expertise to what I skilled however by no means in the identical time and place.
There’s a three-year time leap at first of the season. Joe returns to New York with Kate [Charlotte Ritchie], he will get his son again, and he’s been residing a considerably regular life, making a pact with Kate to abstain from his sociopathic tendencies.
I appreciated that there was a model of them making an attempt to do that collectively. Within the model the place every thing takes twice as lengthy, that will have been cool to discover extra. However we acquired two to 3 episodes the place you do get to see [it]. A few of my most satisfying scene work is together with her; he [Joe] was in all probability the closest to recognizing himself together with her [Kate]. Her character carry these qualities that just about threaten to disrupt the complete charade. However then, after all, I suppose she’s additionally like him, all that stuff, blah, blah, blah. If I had, like a fantasy, like, [I’d like to] discover this extra, it will be possibly that. Only a bit.
Penn Badgley, in filming the ultimate episode of “You,” stated of his character, Joe Goldberg: “In those last moments, he’s uninteresting. He’s like a lizard. He has nothing to offer … At that point, I was just like, ‘I can’t do this man anymore.’”
(Matt Seidel / For The Occasions)
The present was within the works for some time, nevertheless it arrived on the peak of the #MeToo motion.
Technically, proper earlier than. After we have been capturing, all of the [Harvey] Weinstein allegations have been popping out — then, they have been allegations.
It felt, no less than then, like there was a reckoning and a shift in making an attempt to holding males accountable.
And we did it! [he says sarcastically] Didn’t we?
Precisely. There’s been reflection on the place we stand at this time, the cultural development or regression. So, “You” is leaving at an attention-grabbing time. How do you make sense of that?
Let me preface any reply by saying, I suppose I’m making an attempt to make sense of it like anyone. However to me, there’s forces of disintegration and integration always. I believe, culturally, we now have this knee-jerk behavior the place every thing is either-or. It’s such a binary. We’ve been needing to transcend that for a really very long time. We’re really getting there as a result of so many individuals are recognizing that and wanting a distinct paradigm that features much more complexity and, subsequently, fact. In the case of this present, I’m actually glad we’re ending and never beginning now. It’s a really totally different second. It appears [that] in all probability individuals are extra disillusioned now than they have been on the outset. At the very least relating to gender inequality, particularly, girls’s rights. I suppose that should imply we, as numerous others, have been on to one thing. The train of Joe as a protagonist wouldn’t have resonated if all of those actually troublesome truths weren’t troublesome and true. No one thought this present would remedy it and, guess what? It hasn’t.
I suppose that speaks to the purpose of his ultimate phrases.
Sure, which is true. What I really like is that he breaks the fourth wall and it’s like, “I’m not real. OK? I’m not real. So, it’s you. It actually can’t be me because I don’t exist.” I really like that. I believe the present leaves one feeling surprisingly good. I believe? I might be improper.
Penn Badgley on his character’s ultimate phrases: “What I love is that he breaks the fourth wall and it’s like, ‘I’m not real. OK? I’m not real. So, it’s you. It actually can’t be me because I don’t exist.’”
(Matt Seidel / For The Occasions)
Inform me why.
I don’t know that I’ve good causes, however I do know that after I watch it, the final 20 minutes really feel good to me. Right here’s the principle purpose: as a result of, by the top, we’ve deconstructed him and made him much less attention-grabbing. It’s like, would you like extra of this man? Do you actually need extra? I’m positive there’s a approach we are able to cook dinner one thing up, however do you actually? And so it passes the narrative voice to her [Bronte]. What an awesome gadget too. Once more, it’s not concerning the field. It’s concerning the voice and the bed room. These are the instruments he makes use of greater than the rest. He seduces. And people are the issues we gave to anyone else. Properly, considered one of them we took away and the opposite one we gave to her. Additionally, by his final scene together with her, the place she acquired him at gunpoint, I discovered the muscle groups in my neck, which is the place the entire rage has at all times come out, have been giving out in methods I’ve by no means skilled in my life. I couldn’t converse or do something aside from drive up my traces utilizing my diaphragm alone. It was exceedingly troublesome to say something audibly above the rain. In these final moments, he’s uninteresting. He’s like a lizard. He has nothing to supply. I may solely “say my lines like this” [he speaks in forced breaths]. I used to be drained. At that time, I used to be identical to, ‘I can’t do that man anymore.” She has every thing to say and all of the dimension and complexity. She has all of the bars to drop. Let’s simply usher this man away, please.
Have been there moments the place you noticed one thing in Joe, or feedback that he made, and thought, “I’ve been that guy before” or “I’ve done something like that…” How was he a mirror for you?
Completely. That was my job as an actor, simply to easily allow myself to make the connections and to know how I’m like him. In fact, I’ve similarities. As a result of somebody like Joe is made — I suppose there’s points to predisposition, genetics, all these things — however actually, an individual like that’s made, which is made extra advanced by the truth that they make selections. What I’ve at all times been doing with him is knowing how my very own experiences of something that I may understand as traumatic [and] finally grappling with my very own disappointment. All of us have losses and grief that’s unacknowledged and unexpressed. I believe simply understanding the place is the violence and rage in me? That’s a extra mental approach of claiming what I believe I used to be doing intuitively all alongside. And that was why on the finish, I couldn’t do it anymore as a result of I used to be like, that is simply exhausting. As a result of I’m not fascinated about it, I’m doing it. And, so, on a regular basis I used to be connecting. He was me. I’m not him, however he’s me, in a approach. I don’t know if that is smart.
